[Solved] AOO Writer vertical justification for text

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[Solved] AOO Writer vertical justification for text

Postby EdIsenberg » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:40 am

I would have thought this would be well-documented since it happens most of the time in books. I need the text format ("Manuscript Text Body Indent") in my new SF novel to fully justify the text vertically, as is true in most novels. I can't find out how to do it, either in OOWriter documentation/Help or this forum. I'm self-publishing, so if I ask for help from the printer/publisher (e.g., CreateSpace, IngramSpark) it could cost me quite a bit.

Any help would be very gratefully appreciated.

Ed Isenberg
Last edited by EdIsenberg on Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OOWriter vertical justification for text

Postby RoryOF » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:50 am

Try setting Register True on the page styles, Page tab. "Register true" will attemt to position text on the page so that it matches text on adjoining pages to minimise "show through" of type.

In Bruce Byfield's "Designing with LibreOffice" which is also largely applicable to OpenOffice, you will find helpful hints on keeping Header and other styles all based on the main body type size in use. Such modularity quickly helps keep the type structure aligned.

A PDF of the book, and/or a zip file of the chapter ODTs, can be downloaded free from the book's website. If you prefer, you can buy a printed copy.
http://designingwithlibreoffice.com

Reading your note again, I'm not certain just what you mean by "fully justify the text vertically, as is true in most novels." If by this you mean that you require the entire paragraph justified, then don't concern yourself with line endings - just type and the paragraph style, if set on "Alignment" tab to "justified" will automatically justify the text. On that setting it is usual to leave "last line" as "Left". Byfield will be helpful on that also.

A small sample or a screenshot might be helpful.

 Edit: A shorter work on using Writer, not as comprehensive as Byfield, is at

Writer for students (several languages)

It may not be relevant to your case, but it is a relatively short and helpful introduction to Writer 
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Re: OOWriter vertical justification for text

Postby EdIsenberg » Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:58 am

I haven't yet tried your suggestion of using "register true." While it sounds good, it doesn't solve the more basic problem: the bottom line of text on each page ends not randomly, but not on at the bottom of the main text portion of the page. I assume that if I can get this to happen on the left page, making the right page line up with the left page using "register true" would handle the right page.

It has been almost two decades since I last coded in HTML, and I don't remember how I put an image into a message. I thought I'd just click on "Img" in your list of different codes, and put the path of the sample in there. However, I have no idea how to give you the image in the first place, nevermind know what the resulting path will be so it will appear.

Thanks for your help on this.

Ed
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Re: OOWriter vertical justification for text

Postby robleyd » Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:29 am

put an image into a message


When you click on Post Reply (not Quick reply) you'll see a tab below the text entry area labelled "Upload attachment". Click on that and browse to the file you want to upload.
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Re: OOWriter vertical justification for text

Postby RoryOF » Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:02 am

The bottom line(s) of text on a page are influenced by "Widow" and "Orphan" controls and "Keep with next" and "Do not split" settings on the "Alignment£" tab of the Paragraph styles in use. Also on the "Indents and Spacing" tab of such styles "Space above" and "Space below" settings may also come into play. "Register true" is unlikely to help much in these cases.
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Re: OOWriter vertical justification for text

Postby EdIsenberg » Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:52 am

Thanks for the help on uploading a file.

Isenberg text line bottom v1a.jpg
Bottom of left page on top of bottom of right page.
.

I've taken out widows & orphans. As you can see, the bottom of both the left & right sides do line up together, but they are no-where near the bottom line of the text box. This is true for all the pages of the book. While I guess I could live with this (since consistency is more important then getting to the exact bottom), there's a much bigger problem with the Table of Contents. I'll send the images for those pages to you in my next message coming right up.
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Re: OOWriter vertical justification for text

Postby EdIsenberg » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:18 am

Here are the bottoms of the two Table of Contents pages.

Isenberg text line bottom v2a.jpg
Table of Contents - bottom of left & right pages


I assume the reason the left page is shaded after the last text to the bottom of the text box when the right side isn't is because the right side ends the table, which the left side is automatically spaced. It shouldn't matter since the gray area is left blank and therefore might match the right side page. To me it looks like the bottom of the two pages will still not match. Even if it does, the left page is very high up on the page.

Thanks again for your continued help.

Oh, I will read the document you told me about.

Ed
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Re: OOWriter vertical justification for text

Postby acknak » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:47 am

You may want to look into Format > Page > Page > Layout settings > Register true: ON

I've not used it myself, but I believe this is what that setting deals with.
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Re: OOWriter vertical justification for text

Postby EdIsenberg » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:55 am

I checked those in other settings but they are all correct. An example is pictured here. On the right you can see this extra space below the last line of text and above the bottom of the text box. Every single page that isn't ended further up has the same amount of space. On the left side you can see that I have not added space before or after, and I do have register-true activated.

Isenberg extra space at bottom of text box.jpg


As I said, I can live with this space for normal text, but I can't live with it in my table of contents. If you have any suggestions I'm very open to them.

Thank you very much for helping me. I'm disabled in a lot of pain, and that plus any pain medications makes it harder for me to think and remember what I already know. I know this section is for advanced users, and on a really good day I suppose I am that, but most days I guess not.

Ed
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Re: OOWriter vertical justification for text

Postby EdIsenberg » Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:11 am

I've just noticed that the Table of Contents ends on the same line regardless of whether it's page 1, page 2 or page 3. The gray area trips me up. So I guess I'm fine as things stand now.

If you like Science fiction, my novel will be out this fall In print, Kindall, and other e-book formats. The name of it is "The Guardians" and it's about what might really happen if aliens (nice ones) were to come to Earth. I'll give you a hint: humanity manages to screw things up quite thoroughly.
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Re: OOWriter vertical justification for text

Postby EdIsenberg » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:12 pm

I continue to have a problem getting each page to end at the very bottom of the text box. Sometimes text won't start at the top of the text area, either!

I have made the suggested change re: the "Register True: Activate" and turned "Widows & Orphans" off. I've triple-checked that the text in question's paragraph format is set so that, under "Indents & Spacing | Spacing", both the "Above" and "Below" fields are 0.00". Nevertheless, I still get at least one blank line at the bottom (or top, depending). :cry:

If people want me to, I will upload a sample page for each problem (i.e., an extra line at the top, or an extra line at the bottom).

Please, anyone, if you have new suggestions, please share them. Your help will be greatly appreciated.
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Re: OOWriter vertical justification for text

Postby RoryOF » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:03 pm

You may have to notionally change (decrease) your top and/or bottom margins (globally) by a point or two to allow a line fit. Your text area (better term than "text box") should be a multiple of the line height, which is the type height plus the interline spacing for one line. All headings and associated space above/below these and paragraphs should also be multiples of the fundamental line spacing. Bruce Byfield explains this in his "Designing with LibreOffice" which can be downloaded from http://designingwithlibreoffice.com

Perhaps also helpful
Secrets of line-spacing in OpenOffice
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Re: OOWriter vertical justification for text

Postby Bill » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:48 am

There is no option in AOO Writer to justify text vertically.

Issue 79877 - ODF: Justify Vertically: Fixed Lower Page Boundary
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SOLVED: Re: OOWriter vertical justification for text

Postby EdIsenberg » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:21 am

I'm marking this solved, but it isn't. Given it's age, I'm going to start a new topic with additional problems involving this subject.
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